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Simple judgement question

#1 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2010-January-09, 11:29

Playing IMPs you hold

♠ K9x
♥ A8x
♦ KJ
♣ AQT92

Do you open 1♣ or 1NT?
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#2 User is offline   dcohio 

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Posted 2010-January-09, 11:36

1NT for me
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#3 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2010-January-09, 11:42

15-17: 1NT
14-16: close, flip a coin.
lower:1C
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#4 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2010-January-09, 11:49

1♣ and it's not close despite the previous answers. AQT9x! And good controls on top of that. It's about halfway between 1NT and 2NT by my judgment.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#5 User is offline   Trinidad 

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Posted 2010-January-09, 11:53

I am with Josh. This is an 18(+) point balanced hand and therefore a 1♣ opening. Not close at all.

Rik
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#6 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2010-January-09, 12:14

Too good for 1NT.

Edit: Although there is no law against holding a maximum, this hand exceeds the upper limits of maximum.
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#7 User is offline   Siegmund 

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Posted 2010-January-09, 12:26

No law against having a maximum. It's still 1NT for me.

(Bear in mind that's in the context of someone who has upgraded 14 to open 1NT about twice in his whole life. )
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#8 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2010-January-09, 12:44

I guess it is not popular to treat doubletons: AJ, KJ, and QJ as a subtractor.
Adding back for the nice clubs seems to break even for me.
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#9 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2010-January-09, 13:30

I think everyone would call this a max 1N opener without the T9 of clubs. So...
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#10 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2010-January-09, 13:46

hrothgar, on Jan 9 2010, 12:29 PM, said:

Playing IMPs you hold

♠ K9x
♥ A8x
♦ KJ
♣ AQT92

Do you open 1♣ or 1NT?

1NT for me
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#11 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2010-January-09, 14:04

aguahombre, on Jan 9 2010, 01:44 PM, said:

I guess it is not popular to treat doubletons: AJ, KJ, and QJ as a subtractor.
Adding back for the nice clubs seems to break even for me.

Ok then add for the great controls. Back to too good.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#12 User is offline   awm 

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Posted 2010-January-09, 14:13

Agree with 1♣...2NT.

It's sort of interesting, I've noticed that KQ-tight is a really bad holding and seems not to be worth five points. And QJ-tight is obviously poor and not worth three points. But I haven't noticed that KJ-tight is nearly as bad for some reason, and AJ-tight seems like it's probably worth five points.

There must be some hard data on this somewhere.
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#13 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2010-January-09, 14:15

jdonn, on Jan 9 2010, 12:49 PM, said:

1♣ and it's not close despite the previous answers. AQT9x! And good controls on top of that. It's about halfway between 1NT and 2NT by my judgment.

agreed..and with Josh's later post as well. Not close.
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#14 User is offline   TimG 

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Posted 2010-January-09, 15:55

For what it's worth, I did a simple simulation. I gave responder fewer than 5 spades, fewer than 4 hearts, fewer than 6 diamonds, fewer than 5 clubs and not 4=4=1=4 -- meant to be a crude attempt to make NT the final contract.

HCP  9+ tricks at NT
6        24%
7        53%
8        71%
9        81%


Game should make a little more often than the double dummy result shows.

From this, it would seem that when responder has 7 (or more) HCP you really don't want the auction to go 1N-P.
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#15 User is offline   Jlall 

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Posted 2010-January-09, 16:27

1C, I'd bid 1n at MP though.
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#16 User is offline   peachy 

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Posted 2010-January-10, 00:32

1C. It is definitely easier to find a club slam after 1C than after 1NT. Not everyone even has methods to find it no matter how cold or obvious that contract is dbl dummy, if NT was opened. If there is no slam, finding NT should not be difficult after a 1C opening. If it is MPs, I just MIGHT open 1NT. It is not that 1NT is a stupid bid, it is just that 1C is so much better.
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#17 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2010-January-10, 05:19

1NT might rightside 4M (if you don't play transfer walsh or something) once in a blue moon, playing at the appropiate level is much more important.
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#18 User is offline   jmcw 

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Posted 2010-January-10, 06:22

1♣ planning a 2NT rebid.
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#19 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2010-January-10, 15:15

Hi,

1NT.

But I am not really in the upgrade business.

As it is, you have a nice 5 card suit, but KJ sec, i.e. one plus, one minus,
and this basically cancels each other out.
A positive feature is, that you are fairly control rich, ... 6 controls are the
expected value for a strong NT, so this actually says, that this is not so
special, so even this is not a big plus.

All in all I would say, that you will be pretty well placed, if you open 1NT,
sometimes you have a max, that is great.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#20 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2010-January-10, 16:15

upgrade to 18 and act accordingly
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