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Do you find the Moysian fit? How do you bid this with your favorite partner?

#1 User is offline   xx1943 

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Posted 2013-March-03, 01:13


Play Bridge for fun and entertainment and to meet nice people.
BAD bidding may be succesful due to excellent play, but not vice versa.
Teaching in the BIL TUE 8:00am CET.

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#2 User is offline   Antrax 

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Posted 2013-March-03, 01:41

S deals:
1-2 (GF)
2(5+)-3 (3+, no 4CM to show)
3-4
5

N deals:
1-1
1NT-2 (checkback)
2-3NT

In other words: no, I don't.
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#3 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2013-March-03, 04:09

1d=2nt
p or 3nt
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#4 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2013-March-03, 06:50

Difficult . Maybe (s opens )
1d-2d
2s-3s
4s
but i will probably bid as antrax
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#5 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2013-March-03, 11:15

With North to open,

1 - 1
1nt - 2 (game force)
2nt - 3 (patterning out) warns North about the short hearts.

With South to open,

Not a chance

Pard and I are congratulating each other profusely if we negotiate the auction above to 4.
When a deaf person goes to court is it still called a hearing?
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#6 User is offline   Siegmund 

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Posted 2013-March-03, 11:57

With at least one of my regular partners it will start

1D - 2NT (natural GF, may conceal 4CM in otherwise NT-oriented hand)
3S

And now it's a matter of judgment for North: partner said he was 4S-5D and afraid of one of the round suits for notrump. Will he consider the 4-3 fit even though the ruffs will happen in the long hand?

Honestly, I doubt it. (Are you sure you really want to be in 4S, if spades break 4-2 and they attack hearts? No guarantee it will make.)

* * *

With another partner it would go
1D - 2C (11+, denies 4CM, an "inverted minor non-raise")
2S (spades stopped, not hearts) - 3D

and...well... at least we've avoided the doomed 3NT.
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#7 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2013-March-03, 12:02

sieg: lose first three heart tricks and claim...standard Moysean play.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#8 User is offline   xx1943 

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Posted 2013-March-04, 12:40

View PostSiegmund, on 2013-March-03, 11:57, said:

Honest

(Are you sure you really want to be in 4S, if spades break 4-2 and they attack hearts? No guarantee it will make.)



Discard clubs to the 2nd and 3rd round of hearts and you'll overcome a spade 4==2 distribution without tears.
Play Bridge for fun and entertainment and to meet nice people.
BAD bidding may be succesful due to excellent play, but not vice versa.
Teaching in the BIL TUE 8:00am CET.

Lessons available. For INFO look here: Play bridge with Al
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#9 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2013-March-04, 13:02

View Postxx1943, on 2013-March-03, 01:13, said:



Ever notice whenever one sees bid and play in the Moysian that Declarer's side has at least the top 3 trump honors. How do they know that?

South deals:
1D - 2C! ( 2/1 GF )
2D ( 5+ takes priority over mentioning 4 cd Major )
..... - 3D ( 3+ cds , NO 4 cd Major )
3S ("good" Major, unbalanced, still probing for 3NT, but concern about and/or )
..... - 4S ( I have a "good" 3 cds, offering a choice of games: 4S, 4NT, 5D )
Don Stenmark
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#10 User is offline   lowerline 

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Posted 2013-March-05, 03:01

View Postxx1943, on 2013-March-03, 01:13, said:




South opening:
1-2nt(1)
3(2)-4(3)
p (4)

(1) 12-14/18-19 balanced without a 4crd major
(2) unbalanced natural
(3) with an expected singleton in or , this is a proposal to play in the 4-3 fit
(4) can correct to 5 with a 6crd diamond suit

North opening:
1-1
1nt-2
2nt-3
3 (1) - 3nt (2)
4 (3) -p (4)

(1) shows the diamond fit in case S has slam interest
(2) no slam interest
(3) with the known shortness in hearts, this proposes the 4-3 fit
(4) 4 is one trick less than 5...

Both sequences are reasonable but might be judged differently at the table. In the first sequence North might bid 4 iso 4 and then you will likely end up in 5. In the second sequence North might show his diamond support earlier (bidding 3 iso 2nt), then 4 becomes unlikely again.

Steven
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#11 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2013-March-05, 03:30

View Postxx1943, on 2013-March-04, 12:40, said:

Discard clubs to the 2nd and 3rd round of hearts and you'll overcome a spade 4==2 distribution without tears.

Unless they play a 4th round of ofcourse.
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#12 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2013-March-05, 03:32

The fourth heart we can just ruff in dummy. And then take our ten tricks.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#13 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2013-March-05, 03:33

View Posthelene_t, on 2013-March-05, 03:32, said:

The fourth heart we can just ruff in dummy. And then take our ten tricks.

How will you draw trumps? Unless partner has AQ you have a problem.
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#14 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2013-March-05, 03:36

North opens (playing 4-cards up the line):
1-1
1NT-2
3-4

North opens (playing Walsh):
1-1
1NT-2
3-4 (or maybe 3?)
4
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#15 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2013-March-05, 03:38

View PostFree, on 2013-March-05, 03:33, said:

How will you draw trumps? Unless partner has AQ you have a problem.

Ah sorry, I thought you were refering to the actual hands. No, given the info that we have marginal values for game and a 4-3 fit of unknown quality, no I would be happy to be able to stop in a diamond or spade partscore.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#16 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2013-March-05, 08:14

If South opens:
1 = 4+ diamonds, unbal, max 17
... - 1 = INV+ relay
1NT = 4+ spades, not 4+ hearts
... - 2 = GF relay
2 = min, not 3-suited
... - 2 = relay
2NT = 5 diamonds

Then either
... - 3 = stopper ask
4 = nat, no heart stop
... - 4
or
... - 3 = relay
3 = 4153
... - 4

If North opens then a possible auction would be:
1NT = (11)12-14
... - 2 = Puppet
2 = no 5M
... - 2 = asks if 4 spades
2NT = <4 spades, min
... - 3 = stopper ask (shortage)
3 = nat, denies heart stop
... - 4
(-: Zel :-)

Happy New Year everyone!
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#17 User is offline   lexlogan 

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Posted 2013-March-06, 11:13

View Postxx1943, on 2013-March-03, 01:13, said:



If North opens:
1-1
2-2
3-4 looks reasonable, 3 is obviously not four card support

Assuming South opens:
1-2NT (balanced, game-forcing, 13-15 or 18+, generally denies 4 in a major)
3 (singleton or void, ala Jacoby 2NT)- 3 (fragment, suggesting no heart stopper)
At this point South is aware that the 4-3 fit has the shortage in the wrong hand, but with 27+ hcp 4S looks better than 5D. The plan is to pitch clubs rather than ruff in the South hand.

Playing the sort of 2/1 GF common around here:
1-2
2-3
3-4, clearly only 3 given the failure to bid 2 last round...
Paul Hightower
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#18 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2013-March-06, 11:32

Not a chance. We find 4-3 major fits when the 3 card suit has a shortage, not otherwise. And do I want to be in 4 on whatever bidding you may concoct?. No. It makes only because you happen to have 10 tricks off the top. How common is that? Normally you have to lose a trick to set a suit up.
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#19 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2013-March-06, 12:16

1C 1D
1N 2D* (art gf)
2N 3H (shortness)
3S 4S

The totally natural auction of bidding around the shortness seems fine too.

South deals:

1D 2C
2D 3D
3S 4S
P
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