[scarletv]

---

Today directing a BBO tourney
South called me as east did not play
I did not want to sub after the hand was already partially played so I adjusted the board to 3NT+1. After that south contacted me and the following discussion started:

South: only ace ♦ and ace ♥
South: two more scarlet, not only one for me in board 5, 11 tricks, pls correct your correction
TD: you cant make more than +1 without help
east takes with ♦A
continues with club
whenyou have to exit with ♥A they will get another ♣
south: no scarlet, only ace ♦ and ace ♥ to lose, others all mine, trust me, i am really really strong player
TD: Please read
TD: I do not trust you I have my own eyes to see so tell me what you will do after ♣?
South: absolutely not... normally yes, but they played bad two turns... as you can easily sees
TD: you are not claiming on the cards but on bad play of opps? you are not really expecting that I as td take that serious? and you tell me you are an expert?
South: no, i claimed AFTER bad playing from oopps
TD: Where is your ETHOS!!! you got 85 % you can have ave+ instead for a not completed board. do you prefer?
South: ok, but stop and read my message
TD: I read your message and still find it incredible
TD: you cannot claim tricks that you cannot make
I will not give you
South: ok, scarlet byeeeeee, you just like to hear your voice
South: only now i saw you are deutsch, that explain all of your arguing...
TD: really?
South: yes, i have to remember your horrible past?
TD: I dont know what past of mine you are talking about?
South: third reich, heil hitler, the shoah...
TD: that is not MY past

I had to get rid of that story. Sure I should have reacted more relaxed but hate it when players claim to be expert to get a benefit from.

[Zelandakh]

I think you should report this to [email protected], scarletv. That seems to be the better place "to get rid of the story".

This post has been edited by Gerardo: 2015-November-11, 18:45
Reason for edit: Fixed e-mail address

[aguahombre]

Are there no guidelines for on-line TD's to handle abuses? It would seem that TD's should have direct access to BBO officials rather than having to go through the same reporting via "abuse@whatever" as the rest of us great unwashed.

This player's verbal abuse of Scarlet was bad enough. Airing it on a public forum might be worse.

[billw55]

While the end comment was indeed abusive, I would add that a director should be above such arguments with players. Your first comment in this dialogue was enough explanation by itself, after that you should simply enforce your ruling and not argue anymore.

[manudude03]

I would have been tempted to ask him to explain his line on the club switch, and if he says go up with the ace, rule 3NT going down.

[scarletv]

TDs see players being rude quite often. Sometimes players report it to them, sometimes they themselves are the objective of aggression. Especially "expert" players are very sensitive when they don't feel treated well enough. They are insulting partners and opps and I as TD have no way to check what happened. When they get a ruling they try to upgrade their result in the way you can see above.

Of course a TD sometimes makes mistakes and I certainly do sometimes especially when under time pressure. When someone complains I try to check and correct if possible but still I might be wrong in my judgement.

What I mainly wanted to show with this post is the kind of rudeness that is outside in BBO. I am not sure if reporting to abuse can help. I never got a feedback of any report I sent (fishy hands and rude behaviour mainly against other players). I don't even know if I give them the information they need for their work. So I fear it might be a complete waste of my time to do it. Concerning the personal insult, I am facing this kind of talk more or less regularly. This kind of racism is widespread and in a way I got used to it but maybe that is the wrong way to handle it. That I was thinking of when I posted.

Manudude03
I asked him about clubs but he preferred not to answer that question (most players prefer not to answer inconvenient TD questions). Of course I could have changed the result but I don't like to rule in anger, that does no good to me.

[billw55]

south: "trust me, i am really really strong player"

He has only taken four actions so far, and three of them are wrong IMO. So strong, heheh

[1eyedjack]

billw55, on 2015-November-11, 14:21, said:

south: "trust me, i am really really strong player"

There is a stock response to comments like this:

"If I have to choose between trust in your assurance of your strength as a player, and my own observation to the contrary, sorry but I go with my observation"

[shyams]

ScarletV

May I suggest that there is no need to assign a score -- especially if 1-3 tricks have been played so far?

• Subs can often see or guess what has been played and can continue playing the board as if from the start. If needed, the sub can ask dummy about previous tricks.
  
• Most TDs do not bother to do this; they may adjust if the sub says "I don't know what to play next" etc. I feel you are adding an unnecessary burden for yourself as Director
  
• If I were declarer, I would not enjoy a barely played board (e.g. 2 tricks) being assigned a score. I'd much prefer to play it out.

This will obviously not apply deep in the play and an assigned score may be appropriate then.

[scarletv]

My experience is that subs do not guess much what has been played before they come. Normally when only a small number of tricks is played I give the sub a short summary about the tricks he cannot see but they nearly always start to play without delay and the result of a partially played board is more random as when I adjust. In theory a sub might ask but I cant remember to see that happen.

But I agree the less tricks are played the more it makes sense to call a sub and give declarer a chance to play the hand. In this specific situation it was one of the last two tables in an unclocked tourney. That is the moment when everyone wants to come to an end to see the results. Ave is very rarely something that players accept as satisfying. Being in a good contract like here ave would have been a penalty for declarer.

[sfi]

billw55, on 2015-November-11, 14:21, said:

south: "trust me, i am really really strong player"

He has only taken four actions so far, and three of them are wrong IMO. So strong, heheh

Only three of five - he did play a small heart from dummy at trick one.

I would be tempted to adjust the score to one less trick from South every time they argued, especially since declarer shows he doesn't get the difficulties of the hand at the same time as being abusive. A classy combination right there, including a classic case of Godwin's Law. Although a simple -2 for winning the club return and playing on hearts would also suffice.

Maybe that's why I don't direct on BBO though...

[fourdad]

"As the director, I call them as I see them. The score stands and I will entertain no further discussion"

Type that ONCE, the ignore!

Why work yourself up?

[diana_eva]

scarletv, on 2015-November-11, 13:20, said:

TDs see players being rude quite often. Sometimes players report it to them, sometimes they themselves are the objective of aggression. Especially "expert" players are very sensitive when they don't feel treated well enough. They are insulting partners and opps and I as TD have no way to check what happened. When they get a ruling they try to upgrade their result in the way you can see above.

Of course a TD sometimes makes mistakes and I certainly do sometimes especially when under time pressure. When someone complains I try to check and correct if possible but still I might be wrong in my judgement.

What I mainly wanted to show with this post is the kind of rudeness that is outside in BBO. I am not sure if reporting to abuse can help. I never got a feedback of any report I sent (fishy hands and rude behaviour mainly against other players). I don't even know if I give them the information they need for their work. So I fear it might be a complete waste of my time to do it. Concerning the personal insult, I am facing this kind of talk more or less regularly. This kind of racism is widespread and in a way I got used to it but maybe that is the wrong way to handle it. That I was thinking of when I posted.

TDs are always subjected to more abuse than the typical player, and see more abuse than the typical player because they work with so many players all the time.

It's one thing to log in, play a few boards and go to sleep, and another to handle tens or hundreds of tables every day, and to have to make decisions that don't always please everyone and might trigger abuse. Same goes for other very visible users like vugraph commentators, yellows and probably stars too.

Abuse reports are not ignored, please keep sending them in. There usually is an acknowledgement reply to each email (a canned reply, but sent by a human). There will be no follow-up to let you know what was done though.

[oryctolagi]

My 2p worth: I think racist abuse is unacceptable in any context. The unpleasant taunt by South certainly falls into that category. Accusing a TD of bias, or even of incompetence, well, that probably happens a lot and TDs take it in their stride, as an occupational hazard (just like football referees deal with the abuse they get). But what South said was definitely well out of order. Yes, report him/her.

[diana_eva]

oryctolagi, on 2015-November-12, 10:08, said:

My 2p worth: I think racist abuse is unacceptable in any context. The unpleasant taunt by South certainly falls into that category. Accusing a TD of bias, or even of incompetence, well, that probably happens a lot and TDs take it in their stride, as an occupational hazard (just like football referees deal with the abuse they get). But what South said was definitely well out of order. Yes, report him/her.

Yup. Scarlet didn't give names here (which is good, she shouldn't do that, of course), but I definitely think she shd report this person.

[1eyedjack]

One point slightly confuses me although not likely to be particularly relevant to the advice:

If I scroll through the play of the hand as posted, it ceases after two tricks have been played to trick 2 (D Queen led, 10 followed).

I had assumed that this was the point at which the claim was made, but that does not fit the narrative, where it says that the TD was called because East failed to play. However it appears from the diagram to be North's turn to play

[scarletv]

diana_eva
my reports don't go via mail as that is technically not working (seems to be a problem with the German character set as far as I understood). So since I found the feature to send messages directly in BBO I started reporting to abuse. That is anyway the easiest and fastest method and I don't keep copies of what I send. I know abuse is not giving a follow up but I find it is strange that I never got any reply or question from someone. Are you sure it is normal to get a reply?

1eyedjack
You are absolutely right. There was one more card played. I did not copy the hand that was played to avoid the names to be copied too and obviously the last played card is missing now. My fault.

[diana_eva]

scarletv, on 2015-November-12, 13:16, said:

diana_eva
my reports don't go via mail as that is technically not working (seems to be a problem with the German character set as far as I understood). So since I found the feature to send messages directly in BBO I started reporting to abuse. That is anyway the easiest and fastest method and I don't keep copies of what I send. I know abuse is not giving a follow up but I find it is strange that I never got any reply or question from someone. Are you sure it is normal to get a reply?

Sorry but I don't understand how you are reporting abuse. Are you leaving offline mail to username abuse, or how? What I wrote refers to email communications, where there's an email address to reply to.

[scarletv]

logged in in BBO
My results
Options
Export deal
Send abuse report

[scarletv]

Just an update for those that are wondering about the right way to contact abuse.
1) Mails do now work for me too, giving me an automated reply.
2) Sending a hand to abuse (description above) makes still sense to me as the majority of my reports are hand related and not concerning insulting. Additional that is much faster as doing it per mail but BBO only wants it for hand records. There I have learned I will never be contacted for feedback or questions.