[thepossum]

Hi all

Just a small poll on a hand in an IMPs tourney about which I feel somewhat aggrieved (this was not how I and many others bid but is the questionnable bidding that scored big IMPs). I will post more info about it in a few days

What would you lead and why based on the hand and the bidding?

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[P_Marlowe]

thepossum, on 2019-February-19, 03:37, said:

Hi all

Just a small poll on a hand in an IMPs tourney about which I feel somewhat aggrieved (this was not how I and many others bid but is the questionnable bidding that scored big IMPs). I will post more info about it in a few days

What would you lead

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The normal lead is the King of Clubs (or the Queen).
Given that you dont have entries you could go for a major as well,
the auction is asking for a major suit attack.
Your pick is as good as mine, spades are a little stronger, ... go
for spades.
All in all I would stick with clubs. At IMPs your aim is to beat the
contract, and clubs have the highest potential to achieve this, and
the risk is moderate.
Make the suit KJT875 and the suit is a lot less attractive.

[thepossum]

Hi

Thanks. I wondered about pros and cons of high vs low clubs and a suit. I thought with an interrupted sequence a small (4th highest) club would be a choice too - thats just the standard NT lead, but I know leading from KQ is ok too. I'm interested in the choice of a major suit attack. Is that since you assume partner may have something high in majors and that Ace clubs is likely to be with declarer or dummy

Maybe I'm aggrieved over nothing - although I will say enough to think that declarer was somewhat lucky in this case. I will mention the outcome after a few more comments.

Personally I would have led a club (based on my beginner defence ) but without actually making the decision dont know if I would have chosen 4th highest or King

regards P

[P_Marlowe]

4th highest apply, if you have a suit that is not headed by 3+ honors, the Ten counts as honor.
The honor lead tells partner, that you are attacking from a pritty strong suit, and he should think
about unblocking, e.g. if he has Ax, he should over take the honor, or with Qx he should overtake
your jack or throw the Queen under your Ace / King.
It also protects you against loosing to Jx / Qx in Dummy, but throws away a trick if Jxx showes up in
dummy.

Leading a major suit: The opponents told you, that they ar not interested in a major suit contract,
i.e. in general they have at most 7 cards. Responder denied 4+ cards in a major, since he did not use
Stayman / Transfer ( there are exceptions, in some case Responder will have major suit cards, but in
most cases he wont), and Opener wont have more than 5, if they regular opener with 5 cards in a major,
they may also play some kind of Puppet Stayman, common after a 2NT opener, less common after a 1NT,
and if Responder did not use it, he wont have very often 3 cards in a major.
In short: Partner will have major suit cards, given that we are 2-2 it is quite likely he will be 4+/4+.
Entering the bidding was impossible for partner.
If you attack a major, your plan is to establish partners suit, he will have entries, he may be able to
take his established winners to set the contract.
The problem: You have no idea, which suit is his strongest, your club holding makes it also likely that
you are playing into openers tenances trough partner.

The above reasoning is also valid after a 1NT opening.

[thepossum]

Alright. Thanks

Partner did have some length in both majors and values in one

High club lead would almost have worked.

Declarer somewhat set a trap for the lead

The only lead that would bring it down was a small club because declarer had stiff J clubs and dummy had 9xxx of clubs, E had Ax so the high club attack overtaken with the Ace would be stopped by the 9

All other suits fell into declarers trap of 9 top tricks

I feel the 2NT was a bit dodgy and lucky

Many ended in 4H-1 or 3NT played by north, a more reasonable auction. 5D also made

I just feel a 4531 hand with stiff jack was a bit misleading but so be it

PS By way of an aside a simulation shows that KQ leads are the best chance of beating a contract against that bidding

[HardVector]

10♠. I would forget about trying to set up your suit, because you have no entry outside your suit. Therefore, you would be playing for a favorable holding with your partner. The bidding went 2n-3n, however, so the opps are favored to have the minors, particularly LHO. I'm going to try and hit partner's major.

[rmnka447]

How about putting the ♣ K on the table and see what partner does?

Hey, on a good day, dummy shows up with ♣ xx, partner overtakes with ♣ Ax then returns the suit allowing you to take the first 6 tricks. Yeah, it's possible dummy might have ♣ Jxx and leading a ♣ may yield a trick. But I wouldn't want to be in position where a ♣ lead beats the contract off the top and I didn't lead them. In an IMP scored pair event that may not such a big issue. But in a team game, explaining your decision to teammates can be really painful, even if they are pretty sympathetic.

BUT, on most other days, declarer will have a stopper and likely duck the first trick. The duck gives you have a chance to look at dummy and try to decide how to continue.

[thepossum]

Thanks everyone for all the thoughtful replies and reasoning

Will bear it in mind for future leads against NT and also the chance that someone has a distorted bid

I'm curious about thoughts on 2NT with a singleton. It seems quite a heated topic. Official bidding systems (from my reading) suggest that it is occasionally ok if you have an Ace (or possibly a King) singleton. I think a Jack singleton is pushing it a bit

I know its more acceptable than 1NT with a singleton

I may even start being more flexible with my 2NT bids myself

regards P

[cherdano]

The main case for the low club lead is when dummy has Jxx and partner Ax. It's a very rare case and I don't think it makes up for the many times you give declarer and extra trick because he has ♣AJ, or ♣J in dummy and ♣A in hand.

[Tramticket]

I agree with other commentators and would lead ♣K

A suggestion for thepossum: this feels like the type of question where you might have set up a poll. If you had, I would predict 100% for leading the king of clubs (or queen if that is standard in their lead system).

[nekthen]

As there is no side entry in your hand, You need p to hold Ax(xx) in clubs or Jxx and an entry. So maybe there is an argument for 4th highest here, though you are losing out when declarer has AJ doubleton. At pairs the risk/reward is lower (ie 3N+1 may well be 0%) and you may well be correct to lead K or Q.

The reason for bidding 2N on such a hand is that partner may pass a 1♥ bid and so will everyone else. This is especially true if you hold a 22 count rather than a 20 count as the probability of missing game is higher and with puppet stayman available we should not miss a major fit.

[P_Marlowe]

thepossum, on 2019-February-19, 21:59, said:

Thanks everyone for all the thoughtful replies and reasoning

Will bear it in mind for future leads against NT and also the chance that someone has a distorted bid

I'm curious about thoughts on 2NT with a singleton. It seems quite a heated topic. Official bidding systems (from my reading) suggest that it is occasionally ok if you have an Ace (or possibly a King) singleton. I think a Jack singleton is pushing it a bit

I know its more acceptable than 1NT with a singleton

I may even start being more flexible with my 2NT bids myself

regards P

The question is, what do you bid with 4441 and 20-21/22 HCP.
Some say 4441 shapes dont exist, and treat it as balanced. This works reasonable well.
And it does not really matter, if the singleton is a honor or not.
If you have an singleton honor you should downgrade it, but how much? Having the card
is better than not having the card.
If the downgrade gets you below the req. level for a 2NT opener, problem solved, but if not?
The problem is usually the rebid, nothing really fits, unless you hit a fit with partner.
The same is true for 1NT openers.
Adding to this: your agreement set after a 1NT / 2 NT opening are usually pretty detailed,
so why not risk it.

[maartenxq]

I lead what I have not what p might have, so K of ♣. This can be very wrong but that is true for all the other leads.

Maarten Baltussen

[thepossum]

The other aspect of bidding though which many players seem to forget (reading various sites and observing play) is that it is about accurate communication to opponents and partner. If a convention says balanced or semi balanced without singleton except in very rare cases it could qualify as a misleading or unusual bid if not alerted or on the CC

This is clear from the above discussion where several good players would have chosen a major attack on the basis of the bid.

And with a 4531 hand there is a perfectly acceptable and accurate major bid available with a reverse. You can also reverse minor major with a 4441 with 20 points and also 15-17

I'm concerned that many in the game don't seem to care about this anymore

[hrothgar]

I would either lead the Queen of club (asking partner to unblock the Jack) OR a major.
Depends a lot on the field and how well we're doing

[hrothgar]

thepossum, on 2019-February-20, 13:27, said:

You can also reverse minor major with a 4441 with 20 points and also 15-17

I consider reversing on a 4441 a much greater sin than opening 1NT with a singleton.
I also prefer to have values > a strong NT opening for a reverse

[smerriman]

thepossum, on 2019-February-20, 13:27, said:

The other aspect of bidding though which many players seem to forget (reading various sites and observing play) is that it is about accurate communication to opponents and partner. If a convention says balanced or semi balanced without singleton except in very rare cases it could qualify as a misleading or unusual bid if not alerted or on the CC

With some specific exceptions, you're perfectly entitled to mislead partner and opponents. As long as partner is misled just as much as your opponents are.