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Wild hand

#1 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-February-25, 07:15

We had a decent weekend playing in the grand masters pairs, this was one of the hands that went horribly wrong, sense checking it.



System notes, Acol, weak NT, 1 shows 4+

Now, 4 or 4 (or something more extravagant) ?

If you bid 4 (showing 5 categorically) partner bids 5, any thoughts of 6 ?

Edit: cross IMP scored pairs
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#2 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2019-February-25, 07:54

View PostCyberyeti, on 2019-February-25, 07:15, said:

sense checking it.


There is no sense in the extreme distribution wild auctions - you are necessarily guessing.

I these circumstances I would always prioritise bidding to a making game - I doubt that you can find out enough information to bid slam scientifically.

I would simply bid 4 at pairs.

Having bid 4 and received a raise, you probably need to go all in and bid six, since 5 probably scores worse than 4.

But who knows?

Looks like you had a great result in a very tough field.
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#3 User is offline   gordontd 

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Posted 2019-February-25, 08:05

View PostTramticket, on 2019-February-25, 07:54, said:


Having bid 4 and received a raise, you probably need to go all in and bid six, since 5 probably scores worse than 4.


He didn't mention, but it's IMP pairs.
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#4 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-February-25, 08:29

View PostTramticket, on 2019-February-25, 07:54, said:

Looks like you had a great result in a very tough field.


The field was not as tough as I expected, the class of the field won it, both of whom are known in these parts.

It's something of a favourite congress of mine, we won the masters, regionals and nationals years ago, but haven't played that often since.
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#5 User is offline   Buty2008 

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Posted 2019-February-25, 09:04

View PostCyberyeti, on 2019-February-25, 07:15, said:

We had a decent weekend playing in the grand masters pairs, this was one of the hands that went horribly wrong, sense checking it.



System notes, Acol, weak NT, 1 shows 4+

Now, 4 or 4 (or something more extravagant) ?

If you bid 4 (showing 5 categorically) partner bids 5, any thoughts of 6 ?

Edit: cross IMP scored pairs


It is hard to describe hand but it is not a great riddle for partner if you bid 5 after 5. Partner should understand that you see at most 2 losers in the combined hands no matter if contract is in (fitted suit) or with no sign of support. If his hand has at least one of red aces should bid 6.
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#6 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2019-February-25, 10:46

Imp pairs, I would have bid 4H rather than hoping for the miracle layout, but having chosen 4D, and bought a raise, I definitely bid slam.....6H. No way am I playing 6D: unless they are scoring a diamond ruff, I am making 6H anytime I am making 6D and sometimes partner has something like xxxx x Axx AKQxx and 6D needs luck in diamonds while 6H is likely cold.
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#7 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-February-25, 10:59

View Postmikeh, on 2019-February-25, 10:46, said:

Imp pairs, I would have bid 4H rather than hoping for the miracle layout, but having chosen 4D, and bought a raise, I definitely bid slam.....6H. No way am I playing 6D: unless they are scoring a diamond ruff, I am making 6H anytime I am making 6D and sometimes partner has something like xxxx x Axx AKQxx and 6D needs luck in diamonds while 6H is likely cold.


You are correct about 6 likely being better than 6, with one exception, if partner is void in hearts you may be able to afford a diamond loser and ruff out the A.

I'll give the actual layout later after more replies
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#8 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2019-February-25, 11:14

View Postgordontd, on 2019-February-25, 08:05, said:

He didn't mention, but it's IMP pairs.


That makes this competition more attractive. I must play in the Ranked master someday.

But I have a LOT fewer masterpoints than Cyberyeti - so would be down in the National & Regional Masters section.
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#9 User is offline   HardVector 

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Posted 2019-February-25, 11:20

4 should be enough. It's forcing and you get some information. After 5 from your partner, now 5 from you should tell the tale. It just takes 2 red aces to have a good shot at 7, but in this case I'll settle for 6. I'm hoping that with one red ace, partner will advance.
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#10 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2019-February-25, 11:26

I'm not bidding 4 now. Like a forum member once said about auctions like this, 4 is a transfer to 4 . Then if partner doubles 4 do you site or bid on?

I'm bidding 5 and making the opponents have the next tough decision. Partner should be able to interpret that having overcalled and competed further that my hand is not strictly a preempt, but a big player.
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#11 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-February-25, 11:29

View PostTramticket, on 2019-February-25, 11:14, said:

That makes this competition more attractive. I must play in the Ranked master someday.

But I have a LOT fewer masterpoints than Cyberyeti - so would be down in the National & Regional Masters section.


I was playing up on partner's ranking, I don't play much these days, will soon have enough greens (national event MPs for those overseas) for grand but not enough to make up the required total including the local ones.

It was MPs years ago, then I think MPs for the lower ranks, IMPs for the higher, and now not only IMPs for all, but the same boards played barometer style in all events, I think it's a really good well designed event and could do with more support (and for Gordon's ears, please hold it in Peterborough again, means with the issues I have I can actually comfortably play it :) )
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#12 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2019-February-25, 11:38

Cyberyeti writes "cross IMP scored pairs. We had a decent weekend playing in the grand masters pairs, this was one of the hands that went horribly wrong, sense checking it. System notes, Acol, weak NT, 1 shows 4+. Now, 4 or 4 (or something more extravagant) ? If you bid 4 (showing 5 categorically) partner bids 5, any thoughts of 6 ?"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Well played. A grand event. I agree with MikeH: Over opponent's 3, 4 was brave but, when partner raises, you might as well boot 6. There is a risk of a -ruff but defenders are likely to lead a major.
In spite of partner's pass over 3, the auction augers well:
- Opponents advertised length and strength in s.
- Partner raised s, rather than rebidding s.
- Hence, hope Hamman is a pessimist and partner has useful values e.g.
J x x x x A Q x A J x x x

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#13 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2019-February-25, 12:57

View PostCyberyeti, on 2019-February-25, 10:59, said:

You are correct about 6 likely being better than 6, with one exception, if partner is void in hearts you may be able to afford a diamond loser and ruff out the A.

I'll give the actual layout later after more replies


If he is void in hearts, there is at least some chance that he may have been able/willing to double 3S. Depends on agreements and style, but 4 spades and a void might well induce a double.
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#14 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-February-25, 13:31

View Postmikeh, on 2019-February-25, 12:57, said:

If he is void in hearts, there is at least some chance that he may have been able/willing to double 3S. Depends on agreements and style, but 4 spades and a void might well induce a double.


Would not be pens for us if he did
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#15 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-February-25, 15:20

Nobody would have considered DBL in the first round rather than 2 ?
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#16 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-February-25, 15:39

View Postpescetom, on 2019-February-25, 15:20, said:

Nobody would have considered DBL in the first round rather than 2 ?


No, or second time, your chance to concede 1x+2 with 6 on or 3x= with 4 on. Btw we open some black 5-5s 1
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#17 User is offline   etha 

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Posted 2019-February-26, 02:57

Can someone explain when going past 3nt with a new suit is a cue and when it is a new suit?
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#18 User is offline   etha 

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Posted 2019-February-26, 03:08

Oh and I gave it to Jack who I expected to demonstrate robots are clueless on these hands.

It did not disappoint. First it had the insane agreement that 4 was non forcing and second it bid 4nt ace asking over 3. It never wanted to play in diamonds which was at least sensible as far as I can see.
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#19 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-February-26, 03:12

View Postetha, on 2019-February-26, 02:57, said:

Can someone explain when going past 3nt with a new suit is a cue and when it is a new suit?


Most often, there are exceptions, if a suit is agreed either implicitly or explicitly it's a cue, this is usually the case in uncontested auctions, where space has been stolen it's more often natural.
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#20 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-February-26, 03:18

4 is the winning bid (last making spot), even passing out 4 is an OK result. Partner has one useful card for you, 10. His hand is AKxx, x, 10xx, KJxxx even though they led a spade to give you an entry to dummy, RHO has Jxxxx, A, AQx, xxxx so he flies A and overruffs when you try to get to dummy with a heart ruff. 3x is -1 so par is 4x-2 for 300, most of the room is in 5-1. 6x-2 for -500 was disastrous for us.

Swap the club and diamond AQs to the other hands, and the hand actually belongs to the opps who have most of the club intermediates.
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