BBO Discussion Forums: The brutality of IMPs - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2

The brutality of IMPs Don't play IMP tourneys if you may be distracted

#21 User is offline   shayde 

  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 6
  • Joined: 2019-June-22

Posted 2019-June-27, 17:30

View Postapollo1201, on 2019-March-06, 13:21, said:

Just wow and all my respect!


I agree! Wonderful explanation about the thought process going on between the two systems. Thanks, mikeh!
0

#22 User is offline   Lovera 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,723
  • Joined: 2014-January-12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bari (ITALIA)
  • Interests:I'm also on YOUTUBE with a channel of music songs .

Posted 2019-June-28, 15:06

This topic is very interesting and full of various technical informations. I only wonder if it is right this collocation in the "Novice and Beginner Forum" for which it may be difficult to understand given the many aspects to be taken into consideration.(Lovera)
0

#23 User is offline   thepossum 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,362
  • Joined: 2018-July-04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 2019-June-29, 04:39

View Postmikeh, on 2019-March-06, 11:52, said:

I am one of those you believe have attacked you personally. It isn't personal at all. I have no idea who you are and, were we to meet, I'd likely be happy to buy you a beer, if you turned out to be as you describe yourself. Unfortunately you have a pattern of seeing all criticism as being a personal attack, which is a very unattractive quality. Maybe you are like that only online.

.......


Says he is not one of the people to have attacked me personally (which you werent, except on a couple of occasions) and continues with a multi-sentence, multi paragraph, personal attack, insults and abuse, totaly uncalled from the so-called self-proclaimed top player you are. Ive spent my life working with the top people in many fields. Generally the better people are at what they do, the less they need to be rude and abusive, since they develop humility and understand their limitations - not always true I understand - some still tend to have an unnecessary insecurity and attack and bully their subordinates

I appreciate your expertise/knowledge on IMPs/MPs but dont have much respect for your behaviour towards me personally on occasions or some of the other unnecessarily rude and abusive players on this site.

It seems to me like a totally unnecesary attack. I could waste a lot of my valuable time and address each individual part of your attack word by word, sentence by sentence but to be honest I'm fed up with it. All I can assume is that you are one of those so immersed in your little subculture of arroagance, insults, rudeness that you dont even know when you are doing it

I'm putting all previous interactions down to a cultural misunderstanding. I now realise that you and many others never learned anything other than rudeness, insults and arrogance. You seem to think that is what passes for constructive criticism. However I understand it now. If you are so immersed in it you will never be aware of doing it, nor will those who are so insecure they feel they have to grovel at a self-professed experts feet.

But thanks for the comments on IMPs/MPs and all your comments and knowledge of bridge on the forums. They would be worthy of respect if they didnt come after such an unnecessarily incorrect rude and personal attack. May I add you are also totally ignorant about me, my bridge level, my knowledge and experience

I never attacked you. I never attack anyone except in self-defence and sadly, despite me using an alias, I am ethically obliged to point out when I have been misrepresented in any way in public.

But I do agree with you about the level of play on BBO on average. otherwise I would not not do nearly as well as I do (despite me playiing an alien US style convention - I'm most comfortable with basic Acol -, and competing against people who like to openly - they brag about it - cheat the dumb bots and flout the rules of Bridge; and also lie about their expertise - bridge base rankings are meaningless and seemingly the site/business esists largely to give ordinary ACBL players an easy way of buying cheap and easy masterpoints - BBO points mean nothing). I also agree that Robot bridge is no test of true Bridge ability, despite many who think it is. Most of the tournaments are best hand - that isnt even bridge. You have tooltips explaining bids - that isnt bridge. If BBO players were as good as they claim (on average) how is it possible for me to win ACBL duplicate tourneys without cheating the bots. I agree robot bridge is no real test of bridge ability. Nothing substitutes for the requirements of face to face club/tournament bridge - all the skill, memory, knowledge, psychology, stress, pressure etc is lost.

Your worst misrepresentation of me was my lack of knowledge and what constitutes a top player. I started learning when I was in my teens over 40 years ago from a very good player and spent a fair bit of my youth learning how to play from watching and reading people such as Bob Hamman and Zia Mahmood. Maybe you have heard of them. I think I know what a top player is. I havent heard of you despite the way you brag about being in the Bermuda Bowl (did you win it?) and kibitizng a few world class players. Also, what upset me most in the early days on this forum (less so recently) is the way "good", "expert" or "top" players insult and abused people on the noivce and beginner forum of all players. You were one the offenders in that Mike which is why I was upset with you in the first place. It was like Serena Williams going to a local club childrens tennis tournament and telling the children how useless they are, and shouting at them from the side of the court. Its rather childish Mike whoever you are

Finally, and this doesnt apply to you since I have never sat at your table in Bridge, almost every time I have tried to host a table, play at a table, or kibitz a table on BBO I have observed or been subject to incredible rudeness and ignorance by people who probably arent very good. Most of them are so ignorant they dont even allow you time to discuss conventions with your partner when you sit down, to ask the meaning of bids, to announce and alert bids. Most of them dont even know the rules, values or ethics of bridge, let alone have the right to abuse and insult someone who does. There are even occasional threads on the more advanced forums from so-called "experts" about how to cheat at Bridge and get around the rules. There is a total culture of rudeness, and it seems to have been encouraged and/or condoned by senior plays such that it is now the norm and seems accepted. It is disgusting having players insult attack and abuse players at a table. I'm not talking aboout tournaments - these are meaningless casual games in the BBO club. Normal common decency and behaviour or human beings is not to be rude, obnixous and insutling to strangers. If you want a top game play people you know but dont insult people who come to a site to play a friendly game and get abused. OK. Ive faced that disgusting behaviour and rudeness in clubs face to face and more so here. It is obnoxious and unnecesary. The whole place and the whole game seems to have been taken over by a poker- style mentality. Poker is a different game. Sadly many playing bridge here dont seem to realise that. I'm quite an anarchist and libertarian myself but even under anarchy the whole point of a game is that it has rules. If people cheat at a game then their success is meaningless and everyone knows that. That goes for academia, bridge, business everything - although increase in anything goes, cheating and reduction in overall quality is prevalent in all parts of the world. Those who win by cheating can sit and think they were successful but only in their heads (which for some is enough I guess). Noboby else respects them, except maybe other cheats.

I would be interested tho know if the ACBL/NABC/BBO have done anything to address the widespread cheating that polluted the last NABC Robot tournaments

But thanks again for all your comments on IMPs/MPs and all your comments and knowledge and expertise of bridge on the forums. That is certainly worthy of respect. I never denied you that despite having to put up with your rudeness.

Cheers
P
0

#24 User is offline   hrothgar 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,372
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Natick, MA
  • Interests:Travel
    Cooking
    Brewing
    Hiking

Posted 2019-June-29, 07:46

View Postthepossum, on 2019-June-29, 04:39, said:



I would be interested tho know if the ACBL/NABC/BBO have done anything to address the widespread cheating that polluted the last NABC Robot tournaments



I am not aware of any cheating that took place in the NABC Robot tournament.

I would be interested in knowing what you are referring to...
Alderaan delenda est
0

#25 User is offline   apollo1201 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,077
  • Joined: 2014-June-01

Posted 2019-June-29, 08:13

View Postthepossum, on 2019-June-29, 04:39, said:


(...)



Seriously? 4 months after?
0

#26 User is offline   hrothgar 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,372
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Natick, MA
  • Interests:Travel
    Cooking
    Brewing
    Hiking

Posted 2019-June-29, 08:27

View Postthepossum, on 2019-June-29, 04:39, said:

If BBO players were as good as they claim (on average) how is it possible for me to win ACBL duplicate tourneys without cheating the bots.


Even a blind pig can find an acorn once and a while, especially in a 12 board tournament

Case in point https://www.bridgeba...=1&from_login=0
Most of my results aren't nearly this good, but on occasions the card gods smile, your screw up don't cost you and sometimes even pay off

You might consider playing in the ACBL Online NABC Tournament that is coming up in a couple weeks

I think that you will find that placing here requires a lot more skill...
Alderaan delenda est
0

#27 User is offline   the hog 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,728
  • Joined: 2003-March-07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Laos
  • Interests:Wagner and Bridge

Posted 2019-July-01, 01:29

"Says he is not one of the people to have attacked me personally (which you werent, except on a couple of occasions) and continues with a multi-sentence, multi paragraph, personal attack, insults and abuse, totaly uncalled from the so-called self-proclaimed top player you are."
I don't think Mike attacked you ever.
Mike H is a good player who has played internationally. He is one of the very few on this site that are knowledgeable and worth listening to. Hrothgar is another. You would do well to pay attention to what they have to post.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
0

#28 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,190
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2019-July-01, 12:48

View Postthepossum, on 2019-March-05, 15:45, said:

No that isn't really the point of my post at all (despite being related) although the penalty of a small error is much worse and terminal than MPs although they can be huge in MPs too. This is the beginners forum. What is it that the two forms of scoring test? Note my above example was 5-1 scores -12 compared to 4 which is very brutal, esesically when caused by dstraction rather than knowledge of the game, systems and ability to play the cards

That would be a good discussion point :)

And my example above was not related to bridge ability per sé but other aspects of the game - other than technical knowledge and skill. I'm also interested in its implications for the field of computer bridge and robot design and training but thats another matter. The different scoring methods measure very different things. They each have different types of error and statistical error. Much design and analysis is based on the number of tricks rather than the scoring method although some take account of scoring method. But I wonder how much consideration there is of different error sources.

But as I say my main point was the brutality of the IMPs form and what it really tests when a small error leading to a misbid and 5-1 scores so much worse than 4 when the player knew that 4 was the correct contract and it was so easy every player made the excat same number of tricks :)

But I think really I was just trying to show the amount of concentration required at every step of (bidding) in IMPs and maybe (play) in MPs and how hard it is on the brain


I think you are very much mistaken if you do not accept that the ability to concentrate and ignore distractions are both vital components of expert bridge play, regardless of form of scoring.

I would suggest as a good read Bob Hamman's book: At the Table.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
0

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2


Fast Reply

  

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users