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Bottom 1 Mea Culpa

Poll: Playing Acol, Matchpoints, vul, in 4th seat, you hold AKQ8 AJ73 943 K6 (14 member(s) have cast votes)

After (P) P (P) 1H (P) 2H (2S) ?? what do you rebid?

  1. Double (9 votes [64.29%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 64.29%

  2. Pass (1 votes [7.14%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.14%

  3. 2NT (4 votes [28.57%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 28.57%

  4. Other (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2019-April-28, 13:18


Playing Acol with a weak notrump (12-14) and no special agreements

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#2 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2019-April-28, 13:31

2NT. I seem to have a stop. :)
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#3 User is offline   eagles123 

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Posted 2019-April-29, 01:41

View PostTramticket, on 2019-April-28, 13:31, said:

2NT. I seem to have a stop. :)


there's a stop and there's a STOP lol
"definitely that's what I like to play when I'm playing standard - I want to be able to bid diamonds because bidding good suits is important in bridge" - Meckstroth's opinion on weak 2 diamond
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#4 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2019-April-29, 01:59

View PostTramticket, on 2019-April-28, 13:31, said:

2NT. I seem to have a stop. :)

My problem with 2NT is that on many hands we make as many tricks in NT as on defense in 2S. I don't know how often partner can pass a double as I have never played 4cd majors with weak NT. If we should expect him to pull (because we also have to double with a stopperless strong NT?) it might even be right to pass - I would certainly be tempted if they were vulnerable.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#5 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2019-April-29, 03:03

View Postcherdano, on 2019-April-29, 01:59, said:

My problem with 2NT is that on many hands we make as many tricks in NT as on defense in 2S. I don't know how often partner can pass a double as I have never played 4cd majors with weak NT. If we should expect him to pull (because we also have to double with a stopperless strong NT?) it might even be right to pass - I would certainly be tempted if they were vulnerable.


Our methods - playing 4-card majors / weak NT

In an uncontested auction, a 2NT is a game invite with a balanced 17-18 HCPs and only four hearts - catering to the fact that partner might have raised on a three-card suit.

We would make the same 2NT call after the 2 over-call - but promising a stop. Double is primarily used to show this invitational strength hand, but without a stop.

I agree that, at other vulnerabilities, a pass becomes attractive and I would expect partner to often protect with a double.
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#6 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2019-April-29, 05:59

I am very happy I spent yesterday sharpening my aXe:) x does not prevent p from going to game it merely shares an opinion that 2s x seems like best given the bidding so far.
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#7 User is offline   FelicityR 

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Posted 2019-April-29, 06:25

If X isn't for penalties in this specific auction then I haven't a clue what it could show. It all depends what 2H shows: limited raise or constructive raise but with no special agreements then we're unsure. I wouldn't be surprised if East is 5M - 5m and has a place to run and has tried to put a spanner in the bidding on the second round. 4H and 3NT may be on - but I think not. As primarily a rubber bridge player I'll take the money and run on a X.
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#8 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2019-April-29, 08:36

View Postcherdano, on 2019-April-29, 01:59, said:

My problem with 2NT is that on many hands we make as many tricks in NT as on defense in 2S. I don't know how often partner can pass a double as I have never played 4cd majors with weak NT. If we should expect him to pull (because we also have to double with a stopperless strong NT?) it might even be right to pass - I would certainly be tempted if they were vulnerable.

manudude03 , eagles123 , heart76 , TylerE , cherdano , ArtK78 , gszes , and FelicityR seem to have logic on their side with their vote for double.
I bid 2N, partner raised to 3N, Opponents led and continued s. One down. Zero matchpoints.
4 on the Moysian fit is a lucky make and 3N succeeds against any lead other than a .

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#9 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2019-April-29, 08:54

Ok, I concede. You need to be playing penalty double against this standard of overcall!
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#10 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2019-April-29, 13:17

First question when it's your time to bid -- "Are the opponents in a bad spot?"

Simple answer -- Darn right!!! You're looking at 3 sure tricks in hand and the A. You're also very likely to score a 4th trick and possibly a trick with K.

If double would be penalty in this position, give it a shot at MP. If not, pass and see if partner can reopen with a double, you're probably in line for a phone number set if partner can. If not, then you've still got a shot at a possible +150 if partner can produce a trick.
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#11 User is offline   ahydra 

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Posted 2019-April-30, 20:57

I suspect the other tables didn't have the somewhat dubious 2S interference.

ahydra
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Posted 2019-May-01, 01:27

View Postahydra, on 2019-April-30, 20:57, said:

I suspect the other tables didn't have the somewhat dubious 2S interference.


You would hope not!

But North/South will arrive in the perfectly normal 3NT in an uncontested auction. Without the interference, I expect that Nige1's auction would be: (auction 1):



The same zero match points would result.

If they were playing a strong NT, a reasonable auction might be: (auction 2):



Again, the contract will fail.

So why did Nige1 get a bad result? I suspect that at most tables the auction was: (auction 3):



As you can see, South declares in auctions 1 and 2 and is unlucky to find West with a perfectly normal diamond lead. In auction 3, North declares and East has no particular reason to lead a diamond (might choose the 4th best spade?). The overcall has contributed little to the poor result - but it might given North south a second chance if a penalty double were availablle. But, as I argued above, there is a perfectly reasonable alternative use for the double in Acol.
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