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Continuations

#1 User is offline   HardVector 

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Posted 2019-June-19, 20:00

After the bidding has gone: (3d)-3n-(p)-?, what is the best way to continue? Should you still play 4c as Stayman with 4d/4h as transfers?, or should you play something more natural? After (p)-p-(3d)-3n-(p)-, does it change?

Our agreements are that 3n could be either a strong balanced hand with diamonds well stopped, or some hand that is likely to take 9 tricks (semi-gambling).
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#2 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-June-20, 01:51

Stayman isn't much use here so I guess you could play clubs as natural with slam interest. But I would just keep your normal agreements.
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#3 User is offline   dsLawsd 

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Posted 2019-June-20, 02:53

I have not given this thought because usually you pass.
But Texas seems possible or use 4 or 4to ask aces or exclusion asking. Could 4/4 show two suited slam interest??
I suspect most hands in this category come up with too low a frequency to think about it.
Great question!
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#4 User is offline   etha 

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Posted 2019-June-20, 06:01

given you might want to ask for aces and you might want quantitative you could use the convention everyone hates.

4= gerber


4nt = quantitative


rest transfers.


No idea if gerber is any better than stayman here maybe I cld try a sim but 3nt is a pretty movable feast and hard to pin down.



Which makes me think you might well want a bid which says did you bid 3nt off running clubs and a stop or do you have a strong balanced hand. So maybe 4 shd ask this.
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#5 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2019-June-20, 06:30

The structure I use is this:

4: What do you have? ->
......4 = I have a balanced hand minimum
......4 = I have a balanced hand with extras
......4 = I have a big balance dhand
......4NT = I am gambling with a long suit


others are transfers.
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#6 User is offline   torgums 

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Posted 2019-June-20, 07:42

When the strain is NT a jump to 4 !c is Gerber. Transfer bids are on. There is a problem when the level is 3NT and the solution is Super Gerber. 5!c is ace asking and when 2 aces are missing, 5 NT is to play. Otherwise 4 clubs is Stayman and transfers are on.
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#7 User is offline   farcar 

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Posted 2019-June-20, 07:47

Got fedup going down in 3NT when other ganes were laydown
So I play this
3 any - 3NT -
4C - I have a 6+ card suit, please bid 4D and I will Pass or correct
4D - Stayman, bid 4NT if you don't have a 4+ card major
4H/4S/5C/5D - natural, mild slam try

Very useful
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#8 User is offline   HardVector 

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Posted 2019-June-20, 08:40

So the consensus seems to be with keeping transfers on. So what do you do with this?

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#9 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2019-June-20, 10:56

Sirs.After going through the various schemes proposed by the experts a few doubts arise. 1) Does the 3NT bid deny a 5+ card strong major suit as a source of tricks with the rest of the hand any 332 pattern and 8 tricks hoping to get one from partner For example a hand which falls short of a TOD? 2)Can it be a sort of gambling bid based upon a strong long club suit.? 3)Can it be a hand loaded with HCP ,no source of tricks.,possible singleton in one of the outside suits and having AKJX in the preemption suit? I am asking this as there was such a hand in the casual bridge involving world class players some 3/4 days back where the world champion overcalled 3NT.(of course they reached the PAR contract later.) If the answers to one or all of these is YES then in my personal imagination it is well nigh very difficult if not impossible to construct any responses as the level is far too high.IF the 3NT overcall can not be defined so as to fit only one or perhaps two of the possibilities how can anyone devise a majority acceptable and playable scheme of responses for various hand patterns that THE RESPONDER MAY HOLD.Else the responder shall remain stumped most of the time.With sincere apology to all the experts.--msjennifer.
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#10 User is offline   dsLawsd 

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Posted 2019-June-21, 02:39

Having a partnership agreement no matter what it is seems important. The one thing we know is that partner has no strong interest in the majors else they would double. They either hold 2 stoppers or the Axx in diamonds so they can shut out the preempt suit in most cases.

Perhaps 4 asks for 3 card major fit and 4 ace asking?
4/ might show a 2 suithand with slam interest.
4 NT could be used as saying I am interested in a Club slam...

A good situation to run simulations on the computer to see the possible results.
again most of the time it is best to pass and stay out of partner's way without another game strain being available,,,
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#11 User is offline   etha 

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Posted 2019-June-21, 06:40

 HardVector, on 2019-June-20, 08:40, said:

So the consensus seems to be with keeping transfers on. So what do you do with this?




Bid 4
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#12 User is offline   RuflRabbit 

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Posted 2019-June-21, 07:36

If you're going to play transfers, you can use 4S ace-asking. 4C can be pick-a-major, asking 4 card suits up the line (my preference), or slam interest in whatever minor wasn't opened.

IMO, if you're going to spend the time to discuss this, it's worth talking about how you'd play it after a balancing 3NT. Here, the transfer principle may be key to protecting the notrumper from the opening lead. If you're playing option 3 above, you'd probably want to swap the 4C and 4D replies so that 4C transfers to hearts and 4D shows clubs.

RuflRabbit
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#13 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-June-21, 08:52

 farcar, on 2019-June-20, 07:47, said:

3 any - 3NT -
4C - I have a 6+ card suit, please bid 4D and I will Pass or correct
4D - Stayman, bid 4NT if you don't have a 4+ card major
4H/4S/5C/5D - natural, mild slam try


 RuflRabbit, on 2019-June-21, 07:36, said:

If you're going to play transfers, you can use 4S ace-asking. 4C can be pick-a-major, asking 4 card suits up the line (my preference), or slam interest in whatever minor wasn't opened.


An easier to remember scheme might be
4C = Stayman
4D = H
4H = S
4S = minor(s)
4N = Bkwd
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#14 User is offline   HardVector 

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Posted 2019-June-21, 18:35

The whole reason I started this, is a disagreement I'm having with my partner. I think this is something that you should talk out with your partners. I mentioned in the beginning that partner's hand was strong and balanced or semi-gambling. Just as a hint, on this particular hand, partner is void in one of the majors. It's quite possible that playing in nt is the correct place, but it's also possible that it makes a grand slam in a major. I personally think that playing transfers when partner does NOT promise a balanced hand is silly. I think it's much more valuable to be able to make a 4d general cuebid indicating an exploration of other possibilities.
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#15 User is offline   RuflRabbit 

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Posted 2019-June-21, 19:56

 HardVector, on 2019-June-21, 18:35, said:

The whole reason I started this, is a disagreement I'm having with my partner. I think this is something that you should talk out with your partners. I mentioned in the beginning that partner's hand was strong and balanced or semi-gambling. Just as a hint, on this particular hand, partner is void in one of the majors. It's quite possible that playing in nt is the correct place, but it's also possible that it makes a grand slam in a major. I personally think that playing transfers when partner does NOT promise a balanced hand is silly. I think it's much more valuable to be able to make a 4d general cuebid indicating an exploration of other possibilities.


FWIW, a little googling shows that sites such as Larry Cohen's include transfers and that systems on was the plurality choice in a bridgewinners poll, but I don't think either of those sources is assuming that the notrumper is likely to have a void. How do you see the auction unfolding after your general cuebid? (Maybe you could give some examples.) How will you tell partner that you don't want to play in their (likely) 6 card major, and can you do it at a reasonable level? Could you get out just as soon by rejecting the transfer, if you agreed on what that means?

RuflRabbit
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#16 User is offline   HardVector 

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Posted 2019-June-21, 23:33

View PostRuflRabbit, on 2019-June-21, 19:56, said:

FWIW, a little googling shows that sites such as Larry Cohen's include transfers and that systems on was the plurality choice in a bridgewinners poll, but I don't think either of those sources is assuming that the notrumper is likely to have a void. How do you see the auction unfolding after your general cuebid? (Maybe you could give some examples.) How will you tell partner that you don't want to play in their (likely) 6 card major, and can you do it at a reasonable level? Could you get out just as soon by rejecting the transfer, if you agreed on what that means?

RuflRabbit

Frankly, I don't know. I have no good ideas on what to do after the 3n bid, that's why I was putting the question out there. After thinking about it for awhile, however, maybe transfers aren't so bad. I'd have to bid 4h followed by 5h, though, to show the hand I had.
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