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Wrong game ATB

#1 User is offline   ahydra 

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Posted 2019-June-22, 01:18

IMPs, both vul



1NT = 12-14, 2S = natural (playing Landy). No discussion about how forcing 3H is. The opponents found the obvious diamond lead to sink 3NT, while 4H is fairly easy. Any suggestions for how NS could have done better here?

Thanks,

ahydra
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#2 User is offline   etha 

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Posted 2019-June-22, 03:11

I would have bid the same way I think.
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#3 User is offline   billyjef 

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Posted 2019-June-22, 08:37

View Postahydra, on 2019-June-22, 01:18, said:

IMPs, both vul



1NT = 12-14, 2S = natural (playing Landy). No discussion about how forcing 3H is. The opponents found the obvious diamond lead to sink 3NT, while 4H is fairly easy. Any suggestions for how NS could have done better here?

Thanks,

ahydra


Not having an agreement about the advance by partner limits the ability to ATB. I assume 2NT would have been the most forward going advance? Thus 3H could be just trying to improve the contract. That said, I'd think such a bid would deny tolerance for spades, which looks to have as much playability as hearts. I'd not have bid 3NT under these circumstances expecting partner to have 6 hearts, and lacking tolerance for spades and no interest in game.

Your hand, is just short of doubling first with about 5 playing tricks if played in a black suits. The further question becomes, what would we do with your hand in the auction, (1N) - 2-(P)-2N; (P)-3-(P)-3? I'd still not bid 3N, especially now that there would be no doubt which minor to lead. Knowing we have game, I'd bid 4 clubs I think.
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#4 User is offline   billyjef 

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Posted 2019-June-22, 08:58

View Postbillyjef, on 2019-June-22, 08:37, said:

Not having an agreement about the advance by partner limits the ability to ABT. I assume 2NT would have been the most forward going advance? Thus 3H could be just trying to improve the contract. That said, I'd think such a bid would deny tolerance for spades, which looks to have as much playability as hearts. I'd not have bid 3NT under these circumstances expecting partner to have 6 hearts, and lacking tolerance for spades and no interest in game.

Your hand, is just short of doubling first with about 5 playing tricks if played in a black suit. The further question becomes, what would we do with your hand in the auction, (1N) - 2-(P)-2N; (P)-3-(P)-3? I'd still not bid 3N, especially now that there would be no doubt which minor to lead. Knowing we have game, I'd bid 4 clubs I think.


Game probable, double dummy, in , , and . 5 Clubs has good chance to make on Diamond lead; win the diamond ace, ace, finesse to the Jack, throw diamond off 3rd winning spade. Hopefully losing no more than the ace and a .
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#5 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2019-June-22, 19:52

partner couldn't rebid spades so poor chance of running spade suit and if hearts cannot run immediately 3n could have serious problems. With the good heart spots and 6 bagger I think 4h is a more obvious choice than 3n.
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#6 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-June-23, 03:05

View Postbillyjef, on 2019-June-22, 08:58, said:

Game probable, double dummy, in , , and . 5 Clubs has good chance to make on Diamond lead; win the diamond ace, ace, finesse to the Jack, throw diamond off 3rd winning spade. Hopefully losing no more than the ace and a .


Wrong line but right idea (Imagine opener with Qxxx, Kxx with E ruffing the third spade), 2 rounds of trumps then 3 spades to ditch the diamond and a spade ruff to then claim.
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#7 User is offline   billyjef 

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Posted 2019-June-23, 09:23

View PostCyberyeti, on 2019-June-23, 03:05, said:

Wrong line but right idea (Imagine opener with Qxxx, Kxx with E ruffing the third spade), 2 rounds of trumps then 3 spades to ditch the diamond and a spade ruff to then claim.


You're right, trumps trick 2. Thanks. :rolleyes:
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#8 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2019-June-24, 08:27

I don't see how North can bid 3 NT without a stop, especially with the advance to 3 over 2 undiscussed.

3 NT, in essence, assumes that South has stoppers which North has no way of knowing. That's putting cards into partner's hand which is not good bidding.

I'm not sure I'd get to game on this hand, although double dummy game looks reasonable. Such is the fog created by weak NTs.

3 ought to show a reasonably good hand with good because of bidding at the 3 level. But I'm not sure North can move with pretty much a black hand opposite.
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