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double?

Poll: double? (15 member(s) have cast votes)

Which is the approx minimum HCP with 0454 you would double with?

  1. 10 (2 votes [13.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.33%

  2. 12 (2 votes [13.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.33%

  3. 14 (2 votes [13.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.33%

  4. 16 (8 votes [53.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 53.33%

  5. 18 (1 votes [6.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.67%

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#1 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2019-June-26, 05:41

This hand was probably misbid by all four players at the table (especially me) so I will not post it. My question is:

1-p-p-1
x

Does this x promise extras? vote to the closest 2 hcp in the poll.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
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#2 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-June-26, 06:39

The answer to this may differ MPs/IMPs, MPs it's probably worth a gamble with not many extras, IMPs it may not be.

Also style matters here, how many cards is the diamond, how little will partner respond 1M on ?
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#3 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2019-June-26, 06:53

The answer also depends on whether opener's double requires extras or not :)

It's just a general question, I thought there was a pretty clear answer (regardless of exact details), my partner also thought so but we disagreed by a lot.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#4 User is offline   FelicityR 

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Posted 2019-June-26, 07:22

You're probably going to be outbid by the opponents in s, and the last thing you would want to do is give partner the impression that you hold a stronger hand than you actually have, especially as he might have a stack of s that warrant a low level penalty double.

On that basis there's no point competing if you have less than a 16 count in my humble opinion. Partner can't drag up a response at the one level, so he/she not going to have much.
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#5 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2019-June-26, 07:36

Hi,

add. values for sure.
I also would more often than not bid a club suit, if I have 4+.
With a bal. 18-20 and a spade stopper I am bidding 1 NT.

This means, the double should show something like 4+ hearts and
longer diamonds.
A possible alternative is, to play, that a 2C bid, showes 55,
if you have agreed to this, honestly ...:

I have other areas to discuss with my partner.

In a weak NT system, it may make sense, to play that X showes the strong
NT, say 16-18.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#6 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2019-June-26, 11:47

View Postgwnn, on 2019-June-26, 05:41, said:

This hand was probably misbid by all four players at the table (especially me) so I will not post it. My question is:
1-p-p-1
x
Does this x promise extras? vote to the closest 2 hcp in the poll.
Agree with FelicityR. In most partnerships, responder will have bid a 4+ card major on 4+ HCP so prospects are bleak unless opener has a lot of shape or a lot of points. If you are heavily out-gunned, getting busy can help opponents in the bidding and play.
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#7 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2019-June-26, 15:24

never get into a gunfight with a pea shooter. With anything less than a reasonable 16 you are guaranteed to be significantly outgunned. That means lots of risk with not much prospect for reward. If we are NV vs VUL a lesser hand might x with the concept being the location of a good save but even then anything less than 14 just seems to be asking for trouble.
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#8 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2019-June-27, 01:51

A double here would be take-out - i.e. asking partner to bid. But I expect partner to bid anyway if opp's 1 is passed round, so what is the difference between doubling and passing? If you pass, the time partner won't bid is when partner holds spades - which means that the hands are mis-fitting and you are best keeping out of the auction. And there is a significant chance that partner does hold spades - if you place RHO with five that still leaves eight to divide between LHO (who doesn't raise!) and partner.

So what happens if you double expecting partner to bid? You give partner a problem with (say) QJXXX XXX XX XXX. In my opinion, double needs to be strong enough for partner to be able to bid 1NT with this sort of hand. It should also be strong enough that partner can consider competing if the 1 over-call is raised. For these reasons, I would expect a double to show a strong hand - closer to 18.
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