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What is lemensol Bidding situation and hand pattern

#1 User is offline   Tablutublu 

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Posted 2019-July-16, 03:09

I want to know about details of lemensol system of bidding.
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#2 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-July-16, 04:33

View PostTablutublu, on 2019-July-16, 03:09, said:

I want to know about details of lemensol system of bidding.


a Lemon Sole is a fish

Lebensohl is a system of differentiating 2 ranges of hand with one bid

Example: (2 is an overcall, all other bids by your side, the 2N is a puppet to 3 which you will never break in this auction)

1N-(2)-3
1N-(2)-2N-3-3

You can play one of these as invitational and the other as forcing, or one as to play the other as forcing

It can be applied to other situations too
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#3 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2019-July-16, 08:36

If I recall correctly. Lemon Sol is a type of furniture polish.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#4 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-July-16, 08:44

View PostVampyr, on 2019-July-16, 08:36, said:

If I recall correctly. Lemon Sol is a type of furniture polish.


An electronic group from UK in the nineties, main album Environmental Architecture.

You may prefer the album Gafas de Sol by Ruben Ruben.
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#5 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2019-July-16, 09:12

View Postpescetom, on 2019-July-16, 08:44, said:

You may prefer the album Gafas de Sol by Ruben Ruben.


Sorry, no. I prefer the fish. Lightly dusted in seasoned four, fried in butter with olive oil and served with a squeeze of lemon. :)
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#6 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2019-July-16, 18:16

View PostVampyr, on 2019-July-16, 08:36, said:

If I recall correctly. Lemon Sol is a type of furniture polish.


I recall incorrectly. It is lemon-scented Pine-Sol.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#7 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-July-17, 00:21

OK, as nobody else has, I should probably give all the bids,but as you know how it's spelt now,you could just google it.

YOu open 1N,opps overall 2

2 - to play
2N - puppet to 3
3 - natural and forcing
3 - natural and forcing
3 - staymanic, exactly 4 spades and a heart stop
3 - natural and forcing
3N - natural to play with a heart stop

If you go through 2N-3

pass - weak hand with clubs
3 - nat to play
3 - 4 spades, no heart stop
3 - natural and invitational
3N - natural but no heart stop and <4 spades

Outside of the club suit you can reverse the other bids if you want, but what I've shown is classic lebensohl. There is also a transfer version called Rubinsohl
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#8 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2019-July-17, 01:52

Yes, I apologise to the opening poster. We were all being a bit too flipant.

Cyberyeti gives a perfectly reasonable scheme for lebensohl. You do need to be aware that this convention needs to be discussed before use as there are multiple variants:
- For some players the immediate cue bid and immediate 3NT deny a stop and going through 2NT shows a stop. If you agree to play this convention you should check that you are on the same wavelength.
- Some play that a new suit at the three-level is invitation rather than forcing and a new suit via 2NT is weak.

Also you need to consider:
- What is the meaning of 1NT-(2)-Dbl. I play this as a take-out. Others play it as penalties and some play that it shows invitational values showing invitational values (a hand which would have bid 2NT without the interference).
- How you will adapt the system if the interference is not natural (e.g. 1NT-(2*)-? where the diamond bid shows "spades and another"). Usually their bid will have an anchor suit and it is usual then to treat a bid of the anchor suit as the stayman bid, but you may have possiblities of bidding the anchor at either the two or three level. Sometimes their artificial bid doesn't have an anchor suit (e.g. 2 in Multi-landy), specifies two suits (2 Landy), or even three suits (rare these days).
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#9 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-July-17, 06:56

And if you haven't already chosen Lebensohl, then consider Rubensohl as an alternative over 1NT. Rubensohl is a little simpler and has the advantage that we can always show suit on the first round rather than trusting opponents to sit passively through our puppet antics.
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